Episode 7: Talking about Equity and Honour with Andratesha Fritzgerald

In this conversation Andratesha Fritzgerald talks with me about UDL, antiracism, and anti-oppression. Andratesha talks about the importance of authentically communicating with our students as part of our journey to honouring them by asking our students what they need and what they don’t need from us.

Resources from this episode

Andratesha’s website: Building Block of Brilliance

Andratesha’s book : Anti racism and Universal Design for Learning

Ant-racism resources and articles. DLPlummer.com

UDL Guidelines

Book recommendations by Andtratesha: Some of my friends are (Deborah L Plummer); How the word is passed (Clint Smith)

Transcript of this episode


Honour, students, anti racism, UDL, learning environment, relationships,


Margaret Flood, Andratesha Fritzgerald

Margaret Flood  00:00

Hi, and welcome to Talking about all things inclusion, a podcast where I get to meet and learn from people in the field of inclusion – in its broadest sense – that inspire me. I hope they inspire you to. Today I’m talking with Andratesha Fritzgerald. Andratesha is the author of the best selling book Anti -racism and Universal Design for Learning. She has worked as a teacher, curriculum specialist, administrator, and director. And these experiences are evident in her book, conversations, and talks. With a passion for Universal Design for Learning, culturally responsive teaching, and anti racism she models expert learning while equipping others to do the same. Andratesha, It just struck me as I was preparing earlier today that we had our first conversation around this time last year, when you kindly accepted my invitation to speak to an Irish audience about anti racism and UDL. So I’m so delighted to have you on the podcast today, to speak with you more about this topic and to learn what new charges you are leading since then.

Andratesha Fritzgerald  01:02

I’m honoured to be here. So thank you so much for having me.

Margaret Flood  01:06

Thank you, Andratesha, can you just start off by telling us a little bit about yourself, your background, and what it was that inspired you to explore UDL in its own right, and then from an anti racism perspective.

Andratesha Fritzgerald  01:19

So I started an education, really not on purpose. And so I was training to become an engineer. And so my background, prior to making the switch, I had a few internships. One was at NASA, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. And I thought, if I’m supposed to be an engineer, then this job would be a dream come true. And I found myself feeling isolated, being on the outside. And the department that I worked in the advanced communication technology satellite, I was the only woman, the only black person, the only young person and in many of the roles that I had to play, I was the only person from America actually. And so I didn’t know why people were not connecting with me, I was not sure. Because I have so many strikes against me, I just felt really alone isolated in the work. I ended up changing my major to English, because I’ve always had a passion for literature and literature analysis, but I also love the sciences. The reason why I’m not a scientist is because I didn’t have community in the sciences. And so when I switched to English, I found community. But I also found a passion. I worked in a summer programme where I lived in residents with 100 9th through 12th graders, so they were between the ages of 14 and 18. And I live in residence with 100 of them for six weeks, I did not sleep, I ate I could, I really chased teenagers around made sure they got to their classes, and that when they were in their rooms in the evening that they were in their rooms for the evening, which meant that I didn’t sleep. But I developed such great relationships with them and talk with them about their career paths and their choices. And what I found is that I was exhausted. And I had so many, just just so many evidences that this was truly one of the happiest moments at the end of that six weeks I was filled, I knew that I found my purpose and my passion. And so I accidentally bumped into education and became a teacher. I did a master’s programme in one year that allowed me to take my background in English and literature. And I have a minor in women’s studies and translated that to a teaching licence. And then I chose to work in urban schools in the inner city where students are at or below the poverty level. And what I found is that when we design learning experiences to truly engage learners to take what is important to them and connect it to the content that we’re sharing, then the results speak for themselves. And so this universal design for learning framework, put into words the methods that I had used for years and found so much success with my students teaching in multiple ways, giving them multiple ways to show what they know, and then designing support so that they can pick and choose what support they need. And so when I found the Universal Design for Learning Framework, I was at a workshop presented by none other than the Katie Novak. And I saw this presentation and my mouth was hanging open because the research and the words and the explanations, the examples were everything that I and the cohort of teachers that I work with, have been working together to build those experiences for students for years. So when I found Universal Design for Learning, it was a natural fit. And from there, I have always viewed the framework as a liberatory tool to bring liberation where there is oppression to bring freedom where there have been chains. And so as I viewed it that way, the word that really describes the Universal Design for Learning Framework in the way that I view it is anti racism. And really, as I think about it more, not just anti racism, but anti oppressionism. And so wherever there’s oppression, wherever there is a barrier, that is holding learners back, then we can design differently for there to be freedom.

Margaret Flood  05:49

Oh, my God, that is there.  I’m scribbling down notes here. And there’s a couple of things that jumped to mind. And the first thing actually, is you talk about, you talked about the joy of those relationships with your learners in those six weeks. And anything like relationships, honouring relationships and equitable relationships come across so strongly in your book, Anti-racism and UDL, and in all of your conversations, and you talk about the honour in relationships as well. Is that where you’re moving then into the anti oppression and the liberation through building those equitable and those honourable relationships? Is it as simple as that? Or is it more complex than that?

Andratesha Fritzgerald  06:35

So I think a lot of times in education, we talk about building relationships. And in building relationships, I think that teachers who are new to the profession or pre service teachers think that they will become every student’s bestie. And that is definitely not the case. And when I talk about building relationships, the honour is central to acknowledging both the genius and the struggle and every learner. And so we get to design structures, systems and supports that honour where you want to go not where I think you should go or what I’ve decided for you, but that I take the power that I have, and lay it down in order to honour you as the expert on yourself. And so universal design for learning is all about expert learning, building expert learners, it also to me is about the teacher or instructor or leader, placing themselves in the learner position to learn more about who the student is. And so we build relationships when we communicate this ethic of care, by the choices that we entrust to the student, by the way that we take ourselves out of power, even if it’s as simple as saying, I know that many of us learn in different ways. My job is to learn how you learn and then deliver instruction in that way. And when teachers hear this for the first time, they feel like that’s very difficult, or I’ll have to design 14,000 different ways for the students that I have. But ultimately, when you embrace the Universal Design for any framework, it gives you the very best of brain research on how humans learn. And it gives us a guideline on how to teach. But what we do to honour those who are in front of us is we take our cue from them, and the relationship is built, when we are able to communicate, I’ve made this change with you in mind, I’ve created these options with you in mind. And then learners begin to see themselves in the options that we give. And they begin to feel supported and welcomed in the way that we structure, our classrooms. And even if there are areas or tasks that push our students to get into that uncomfortable zone, we don’t allow them to stay in comfort forever. But we do create these environments for them to find out more about themselves as a learner. That is honour and action. I think that as after I wrote the book, something that I keep thinking about and keep coming back to is this notion of power. Every learner has power when they walk into the learning environment. We get into these power struggles that are dishonouring when we choose our preferences and our comfort over the learners. And so I think one of the most important pieces of relationship building is saying that what you need to learn and what I need to teach sometimes will differ. But how can we create experts tations that allow us to think ahead before conflict and say how will we handle it when we step on each other’s toes? How will we communicate when what I’m asking you to do, and what you want to do is in opposition to one another, what will we do then, and that then creates a set of expectations that we can operate from. This is honour. This is honour action. This is relationship building, and action. And so it’s a little bit different, because I think that it’s comfortable to think about content transmission. But before you deliver content, you have to acknowledge the power that each learner brings into the classroom. And this structure, an invitation or an on ramp for them to exercise their power in a way that leads them to learn more about themselves as a learner, to see them as an expert on themselves as a learner.

Margaret Flood  10:54

And Andratesha, while you’re while you’re talking about power there, I’m hearing the empathy come through everything, you’re saying, I’m hearing the empathy with the students. And that being such a huge part of that honour in that relationship. But what I’m also hearing is the empathy you have for the teachers and our struggle as well. And you know, we’ve had these conversations, you’ve been instrumental in helping me, as a white woman become more, more aware of my own implicit biases and my own white privilege, and to be able to turn that into – have an empathy for my black students and my brand students in my classroom. Could you talk more about that, from that, that teacher educator perspective,

Andratesha Fritzgerald  11:38

When we think about teacher education, I think one of the essential components of teaching and learning is feedback. But very rarely do we pause to think that feedback can be triggering. So learners have experience with giving or receiving feedback that is either heard or dismissed, or they could be like me, I had a traumatic experience in the fifth grade, where a teacher told me to get up and move all of my things away from the table over to the corner, because I wasn’t smart enough to sit with the others. And so this trauma that our black and brown learners carry, they’re suspended at a rate that’s three times higher than their white counterparts. And in some states, or some parts of the United States, it can be up to at least seven times higher, their black students with disabilities are more likely to be secluded or restrained. And so there is this message that has been given to black and brown Indigenous learners, learners who are culturally different, that you don’t belong here, and then actions to support that message. And so as we think about power and honour is not just what has happened while they’re in our care, but we have to create safe spaces that allow the baggage of what they’ve experienced before they reach us, to be welcome that 100% of who you are as welcome here, what you’ve been through as welcome. What you know, is welcomed, what you don’t know is welcome, your fears. And your anxieties are welcome here. And we will continue to refine the design until you have what you need to be well. And I think that goes back to something that Alison Posey shares in her book, her and Katie’s book, Unlearning, that all learning is social. And all learning is emotional. And when we put that trauma on top, that black students or brown students have experienced that they may talk about, or they may not talk about, or they’ve internalised they feel that these are normal situations, then we have to pause and think about how can we take this universal design for learning framework? How do we think about it in terms of trauma informed, or social, emotional, or culturally responsive to meet the needs of the learners in front of us and so, so as we learn, and as we grow as practitioners, we have to not only develop our empathy muscle, but we also have to develop that experience muscle to make sure that what we are giving the intent matches the impact, and that we don’t bundle it into what I didn’t intend to cause harm. But we take into account that every learner has a background, but they also have a future and where those two collide is when they are in the present with us. And so if we design differently, if we make space for them to be well, and to be welcome, if we give them the authority to make decisions for themselves that will govern their best outcome, if we offer them coaching, when they make decisions that are not leading them in the direction that they need to in our learning environment that we will coach and walk alongside. It changes the trajectory of our relationships together, but it also changes their empowerment, the way they see themselves and groups of people who have been traditional really are historically marginalised. Because sometimes internalise a message that the way things have been or the way things that think, or the way that things will always be, until they meet one of us one of the honour core, who is trusting them to be the expert on themselves. And as we learn them, as they teach us, that will take that information to build experiences that get them to the destination that they choose for themselves.

Margaret Flood  15:25

Oh, again I’m scribbling down here. I have so many questions. I’m gonna, I’m gonna go back a little bit where you started talking about how feedback can be triggering. And it was in your book that I first found UDL with cultural responsiveness, with trauma informed practices, with restorative practices. What brought about those, and I think they’re fantastic. I mean, it was a lightbulb moment for me when I read them, what brought you to bringing those three approaches within or alongside the UDL framework?

Andratesha Fritzgerald  16:05

I think a lot of the the way that we implement universal design for learning has to do with our motivations on the inside. And while universal design for learning as a framework is liberatory, to me, that is how I see it, that’s how I’ve always utilised it with my learners, that the very same thing that I see as free, could be used as a way to place students in a box when we make the decisions for them. So it was important for me to connect these other frameworks to UDL so that practitioners could see how structuring choices could be a social emotional learning strategy, how providing supports, could be culturally responsive. And if we have the mindset that we want to serve learners, then our motivation has to be to learn as much as we can about who they are. And then build from that knowing or understanding, not from the assumptions and not from the biases, but truly opening ourselves to be the expert learner, on our students learn as much as we can take in, and then shape the learning experiences from that knowledge from that learning. That changes the way that we view UDL. For so long, Universal Design for Learning has lived in the silo of special education. And actually, it needs to be introduced to all educators so that they have an understanding of the ways that humans learn. And when we see each learner as a human being, it brings back humanity, it breathes life. And it takes into account that we are multifaceted. So my mood may be different today. But I can make some choices for myself, that account for the mood that I’m in, or the seat that I liked yesterday may not be good for what happened in the hallway a few minutes ago. So I may need to choose a different seat. So the flexibility is there for me. And if our black and brown learners have been educated in spaces where compliance has been king, meaning that structure has always been, the teacher makes the decision for where I sit and what I choose, and how I take in the information that opening up this way of learning to all learners, not just students with disabilities, not just students who are in affluent neighbourhoods, but giving all learners access to this type of learning is a tool for liberation. And so that’s why it was important for me to connect so that people can just take a look at those checkpoints, take a look at multiple means of engagement, multiple means of action expression, multiple means of representation, and see how they could release their biases, release their preconceived notions and really, truly put the learner in the driver’s seat to get to the destination that they choose.

Margaret Flood  19:01

And it’s really it’s going back to again, what you said I think about that intent matching impact. So if we are, because for for me, I felt sometimes like I was thinking Universal Design for Learning. But I may not have been fully engaged in thinking culturally responsively, whereas if I know, I’m clear that my intent matches my impact, then I have to think about the other three approaches within my universal design for learning approach. And I feel then that that changes teachers roles, and you use the word coach and facilitator and I think, perhaps that’s where we should be moving as educators to teachers, as coaches and facilitators, rather than teachers as giving instructions and being information vessels and just being there to fill a student’s brain with the content we believe is the right content. How would you feel about that?

Andratesha Fritzgerald  19:59

I think that that is a beautiful assessment of what I’m trying to convey in my book, anti racism and universal design for learning. I think that in the gifted education world, and I think we silo this creativity and making choices to gifted education, and we say like they need space to learn and grow and try and create. And then we keep that kind of learning experience, to a group that we’ve decided is worthy, that is filled with bias that is filled with prejudice and preconceived notion. And if we expand our view of who is deserving of the very best educational strategies and techniques, then we’ll see that we’ll have to unravel this, the preconceived notions will have to unravel, implicit bias will have to unravel racism will have to unravel ableism and extend our thinking of who can achieve and who can make decisions for themselves, and who should have access to creativity and support and expand that to every learner and until we expand the very best in education to every learner, and justice will remain and I just can’t sit still knowing that there are students who are intentionally being segregated from the very best of teaching and learning from showing the very best of who they are, from having their genius invited to the table, but rather siloed or shackled to the side, because we are too rigid with the instruments, that we won’t take the limits off of how we let students show us what they know, or share with us what they’ve learned in a way that makes sense, or that’s valuable to them. And until we see every single learning environment, take on the multifaceted view that students are not one note, they are not one dimensional, that they have likes and dislikes and comfort and uncomfort that they have destinations that they want to go to that they can make connections for themselves, that they have to learn strategies for themselves so that they are truly honoured in our presence. We have to push until this is what education looks like, for every learner.

Margaret Flood  22:33

I think that’s so important. I love that you’ve actually brought up ableism. And you’ve brought up that universal design for learning and like indeed equitable and quality education is for everyone. Because sometimes I feel we are siloing it. So we will look at UDL or equity or inclusion, from the SEN perspective, from the black anti racism perspective, from the minority or the religious group. But we’re not seeing the ableism we’re just seeing all of those different groups, and we say, Oh, well, I’m doing something for the child with SEN, or I thought about my black students. But by doing it that way, we are still disabling people. And we’re we’re taking away that power. And we’re in fact dishonouring them by doing that with you. Would you agree with that? Or am I picking it up rightly,

Andratesha Fritzgerald  23:24

You’re picking it up rightly. And the word that I will use to describe that is intersectionality, we cannot separate out for students what their needs are. And many times particularly, you know, the lens that I talked about it through the anti racism lens, I just didn’t see how I could separate anti racism from ableism or separate UDL as not a SEL strategy or a culturally responsive strategy. Because to truly serve, we have to be aware of each of the intersections that our learners bring. And we have to design even for the intersectionality that we don’t know, that’s invisible, that we will only know if our learners choose to share with us, but they shouldn’t have to share in order to be welcome. They should not have to revisit all of the trauma that they’ve experienced. For us to be trauma informed. They shouldn’t have to reveal the racist incidents that they’ve had in the past for us to be anti racist. They shouldn’t have to disclose their disability to have the supports available to them, that if we take them away, it will be just in jest. And so if justice is our goal, if inclusion is our goal, if equality and awareness is our goal, then it has to show up in how we design and yes there’s no way for us to know all of that a student has encountered or all that they bring to the table with them. But it is our job to be listening and watching and designing to invite all Who they are fully and authentically to exist without limitation. And one of the things that’s really important to me that I share, anytime that I give a talk is that 100% of each person who’s there is welcome. And so I remember, I was presenting at a school district, and I say, 100%, of who you are as welcome. And then someone came to me and said, Well, maybe 100% Shouldn’t be welcome. And we kind of laugh. Because there are parts of each of us where we are blind to it, we don’t know what is happening, there are parts of us that others can see or experience that we are not aware of. Those two are welcome. Our students don’t know the full of who they are, just as we don’t as practitioners. So as we grow and develop, the the task is to designing and redesigning, to be more inclusive to that learning. And even if we don’t know the full sum total of the students that we are serving, that we will be attuned enough to hear them to ask for their feedback, to design in a way that gives each learner the challenge and the support, they need to grow and change.

Margaret Flood  26:16

And that that is like we’re nearly coming full circle Andratesha, it’s going back to that giving and sharing of power. And for anyone who’s read your book, I’m sure they’re going to be like me that in the book, you can feel your joy in talking about the sharing of the power and the trust you’re handing over. And yes, it’s difficult, the first probably 100 times you do it. But that it wasn’t just a positive experience for the students who are being given this power that they haven’t taught before this respectful power, this learning power, but it’s also a joy and an experience and a learning opportunity for the teacher or the educator as well.

Andratesha Fritzgerald  26:57

Absolutely. Every teacher has to, as I said before, place themselves in the learner seat, I think that is important to know that as we try our best to implement universal design for learning that we will not get it right, there is no reaching the pinnacle of universal design for learning that we will make mistakes. But that’s the beauty of creating a learning environment where mistakes are welcomed, where we can fall short, and then redesign to get better and to grow. And that’s exactly what we’re asking students to do. Do you have access to the tools and resources and supports for you to redesign your approach, and then try it again, failure I talked about in my book that we have to learn and teach, to fail forward. And that just means that when things don’t go as we think they should, or, like we’ve imagined them, that we pause that we take a step back, that we listened to the feedback. And I want to say this, that feedback doesn’t just come in a survey, it doesn’t just come at the end of the course, sometimes the feedback is in the behaviours that are exhibited. Feedback is in the marks at the scores, the students are earning feedback as in the comments that are given. And then there’s feedback when we explicitly asked tell me what I can do differently to reach you. Tell me what you wish I would do more of and tell me what you wish I would never do again. And then let’s invite those kinds of conversations. As we invite the conversations, students, or learners, regardless of their background, or their race, or their ability, or their diagnosis, will begin to feel welcome and nurtured and supported. And when they do, the brain is freed up to carry the cognitive load, instead of carrying the load of anxiety, and fear and rejection. And that is what makes the difference in an anti racist and universally designed learning environment. every learner feels welcomed and support it and their voices invited to the table in multiple ways. And then they volunteer to share their voice in a way that maybe other learning environments they wouldn’t even get a chance to.

Margaret Flood  29:23

And I think that like what’s taken out of that for me is the ‘tell me’. As soon as a teacher or an educator invites a student to tell them to tell me what I can do and more importantly, to invite a student to tell me what you don’t want me to ever do again is inviting them is showing them that you care that you might have blind spots that that you want to learn from them and create this wonderful learning environment that like the full community is in and I think that is so so important and it also helps leads me into where you talk in your book, your lovely metaphor about accessing the US Highways, the motorways, for us in Ireland, that maybe we actually need to start with the tell me questions, and then look at all of those different examples and stages along the way that you discuss in your book,

Andratesha Fritzgerald  30:20

As we, you know, as we focus on creating experiences that invite students to both relationship and community, and then we also have to invite them to the content. And so it’s important to create what we call here on ramps, what are they callED in Ireland Mags?

Margaret Flood  30:41

Oh, we just call the merging. So they’re, ramps, we just merge. Yeah,

Andratesha Fritzgerald  30:46

That’s, that makes sense. That is exactly what an on ramp is, is emerging. And so we have to create opportunities for learners to merge safely into new content. And that means that we’ll activate the background knowledge or if the background knowledge is not there, then we’ll supply that background knowledge and give them multiple entry points so that they can merge on and that just merge on recklessly. And I don’t know about you, but there are some drivers that just don’t even look either way, they just pop up onto the expressway, and it’s like, hey, you know, we, we need a little little safety talk here. And so for learners, we don’t want to expect them to merge on to the expressway of new learning, without some supports without some practice. And so we have to create these entry points, these safe spaces for them to slowly move into the the traffic in a way that makes sense for them. And we do that by giving the support by giving them multiple opportunities to practice by activating that background knowledge by encouraging them to bring what you have to this new learning, and then take your new learning with you to the next episode.

Margaret Flood  31:58

Oh, thank you so much. Andratesha I’ve one more question, if you don’t mind, before we finish off. And actually, it’s based on one of our very early conversations. And it was it was about speaking for yourself and not speaking for your perceived group. And something I’ve actually found since I came to the States, as you know, I’m over here in Boston for a couple of months, is everyone expects me to be speaking for the Irish, and everyone has their view of the Irish. And if I don’t fit into that view of the Irish, there’s like, oh my god, you don’t do that. But I thought of the Irish status. And it’s given me a very, very small flavour of what it must be like for, for groups and for when one person is asked to speak for their group. And I know that happens in the I know, I’ve done that to students in my classroom. Can you give any advice on how not not that we circumvented, but that we don’t place the pressure of a group or a community on the shoulders of one of our students,

Andratesha Fritzgerald  33:02

This is honour in action. And when we think about honour, is truly creating space for you, to be you and me to be me. As we honour each other, then we don’t place a burden on one another to be a representative or a sports person, but we honour your experience. We honour what you’ve experienced what you’ve gone through what you would like to share how you learn. As we think about honouring each other’s full existence, there’s a quote that I would like to read, because we have to resist the Saviour complex and when someone comes in with a saviour complex, they think that they have to know or that they can learn everything about a race or a group from one experience. ‘And so, anti racist learning environments are not built around a saviour complex of rescuing black and brown children from the ills of the world. When a learning environment is truly anti racist, then all learners will be empowered beyond bias to make decisions about their learning and leading because the environment is welcoming and safe. Creating culturally responsive, culturally sustaining, flexible and empowering classrooms distributes the power that is traditionally held by the teacher and releases those who have had the power in them all along to shine. Tradition has upheld racist values that hold the genius of black and brown children’s hostage to white rhetoric. Honour places learners in the driver’s seat. Honour says I see you. I am learning from you. I acknowledge you. You are welcome here. You belong. Your success is mine. mission. And I think that really captures the sentiment of the question that you asked that their success becomes our mission individually, as we move to a community of learning, that comes together collectively to support one another, to cheer each other on, but allows each of us to retain the full authenticity of who we are when we walk into the room that I don’t have to transform. In order to be successful. I can be successful, and be myself.’

Margaret Flood  35:32

It’s a it’s a beautiful quote. And it really, it surmises everything that you’ve touched upon here tonight. And I mean, I could talk to you for hours, but I know, it’s coming to the end of our conversation. So as we are coming to the end of our conversation Andratesha, I’m wondering, are there any resources for further into independent learning for educators that you would like to share with us today. And I, of course, will be putting the link to your book, because as you know, we just like opened my mind and my heart so much. So when the podcast goes out, I will put the link to the book with the podcast as well. But is there any other resources you would like to direct us to?

Andratesha Fritzgerald  36:11

I would say that there’s a book that I love, especially as we think about anti racism beyond the classroom, we have to diversify our world, our friendships. And there’s a book by Dr. Deborah L. Plummer, and it’s called ‘Some of my friends are’, and it’s the daunting challenges of untapped benefits of cross ratial friendships. And she really digs into some personal stories about how cross ratio friendships can be difficult, but so beneficial to all involved. So I would really recommend checking that one out. And she’s been such an inspiration to me and a thought leader over the years, and I’ve seen her model in the life that she leads. And so I’m really recommending that people take a look at that she has some amazing resources on our website to the anti racist style quiz, and a number of articles. So check her out, Deborah L. Plummer. She’s amazing. And another book that I would recommend is how the word is passed. And it is by Clint Smith. And he talks about how this legacy of slavery has been embedded in some of our most populous cities across the United States. But it gives us a way to think about how oppression has been embedded into tradition, and customs and systems. And it brings an awareness to us as educators on whose story are we protecting? And whose story are we telling when we hold these traditions up. So I think those are two great places to start. Of course, cast.org for Universal Design for Learning is a great place to start and to dig into that Universal Design for Learning Framework. And of course, my website building blocks of brilliance that calm to stay connected, join my email list, and I’ll send out just practical strategies on how to keep anti racism and Universal Design for Learning at the forefront of your practice.

Margaret Flood  38:19

Super, thank you so much. Two more books for me touch my reading list tonight. And your teacher before I say goodbye. Is there any final words that you would like to share with everyone listening to us today?

Andratesha Fritzgerald  38:30

I would just like to say that if education is going to change, systems will change. districts will change organisations will change. Every single movement depends on what you do with the information you have. Each one of us make up the systems each one of us decide which traditions move forward and which ones are obliterated. Each one of us has the power to choose to honour those whom we get the privilege of teaching and learning from and so my charge to each of you listening today is will you choose honour with the power that you have.

Margaret Flood  39:15

Thank you so much Andratesha. On that note, I will say goodbye to everyone. Thank you so much for joining both myself and Undertaker for talking about all things inclusion. I hope you will join me again soon. Bye now.

Andratesha Fritzgerald  39:30

Thank you

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